Why I Changed My Mind about Homosexuality and the Church

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S & G story repeated

The account of the Levite's concubine in Judges 19 is very similar to that of Sodom. This is not my discovery by any means. The inhabitants of both places were killed, though by different means. Mentioned in both is the idea that the guest must be protected at all costs as the traditional of hospitality required.

David 17 days ago

Is it a Choice?

Sodom was named for sodomy, or same-sex sexual acts that went on there. The Bible tells us the men of Sodom demanded the two men angels be sent out of Lot's house for them to sodomize. But Lot refused. Knowing they wanted only men, he offered his daughters instead, but they again demanded the men. When they tried to force their way into Lot's house the angels struck them blind.

If God had made the men of Sodom that way, He could not have punished them for being that way, and God is a fair God. Therefore, they had to have a choice in the matter.

It is always wrong to do evil and always right to repent and turn back to God. When one prays for help in this, the Holy Spirit will help you live a more holy life and a life more pleasing to God. You can read about this in Genesis chapter 19.

Skipper 18 days ago

This presents the best argument.

1) LGBT individuals don't have a choice
"Secondly, the evidence is overwhelming that sexual orientation is not a choice."

2) Marriage is a good thing for you, why wouldn't it be for them.
"It is the quality of our love and its imitation of Christ’s love that is definitive, not gender or sexual orientation. As committed couples, our LGBTQ brothers and sisters should be able to love each other in ways mutually fulfilling to them, as surely as we who are heterosexual."

It obviously helpful to have a lot of contact with LGBT individuals to feel compassion for them. We definitely are in a legislative box with everyone not trying to create consensus, but trying to get to 51%. We are debating whether its right or wrong, so whether its injustice is what we are actually debating. To fully endorse homosexuality, it's sometype of love argument, but it's a much more strained argument than the comparable racial justice or women's rights debates.

I struggle to say there isn't a choice component within this debate. I question whether marriage being a good thing for me is a strong enough argument for endorsement of same-sex marriage versus our current policy of acceptance.

Chad 19 days ago

Truth and love

I truly do appreciate and support Bishop Carders compassion and empathy towards those who experience and practice same sex relations. As Christians we can do no less. Yet, with all due respect I believe his article is lacking in sound biblical exegetical, theological and historical support for such relations. I would recommend that interested persons read Robert A. J. Gagnon's book, The Bible and homosexual practice published by Abingdon Press of the United Methodist Church. Paul reminds us that truth and love should walk hand in hand.

Eriberto 19 days ago

Consider Jesus

You still have to face the fact that Jesus was a moral person. Therefore, if you want to follow Jesus, you need to live the way He lived. Human wisdom is so faulty. The more excellent way is to be guided by God's wisdom. The Bible is a road map for life. Jesus Christ is the light. We need to go to the light of Christ.

Skipper 20 days ago

Choice or Not

I would say this has to be a choice or else God could not have punished Sodom and Gomorrah.

Skipper 21 days ago

Sodom and Gomorrah

Unless these two places were all male settlements, which is not mentioned, over half the population would typically have been children. Much is made today over the loss of unborn children, yet here, they and born children are considered quite disposable.

David 20 days ago

An interesting observation

The destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah had nothing at all to do with any persons there being LGBTQ or so forth. Obviously there had been animosity between them and The Lord, who walked up with two dudes to Abraham's tent to let him know the aerial bombardment would commence. Abraham began his schtick as one of the first Jewish comedians in his classic bargaining with The Lord to save his schlemiel nephew Lot. The inhospitality to the aforesaid two dudes who went to warn Lot is most often cited, but the actual sins of Sodom are never particularly named until Jeremiah, who identified them as avarice and oppression of the poor. My impression is, it was war, and war leads to horrible things. Lot's wife's fate was identical to that of some victims of Hiroshima and Nagasaki in 1945. Immolated flesh in a nuclear blast can resemble a "pillar" of a salt-like substance. The firing of the phasers on the Lord's Starship may have indeed murdered children, but so did our actions at Hiroshima and Nagasaki, as well as at Dresden and other atrocities up until the Holocaust and even the Syrian oppression of civilians and the Myanmar genocide of the Rohingas. And what of Gomorrah? Nobody talks about them except W.B. Yeats and Robert H. Bork quoting Yeats. Unless one is incredibly naïve, and moral lesson from the episode beyond Jeremiah's is incredibly silly or else outright prevarication, as is common in the motivation of the religious right theocrats. Considering the incestuous episode afterward, the idea it is concerned with any particular sexual orientation is incredibly poorly informed.

I'm not sure exactly what "David" thinks is a "choice." Perhaps the choice to bomb was the moral quandry. The Dude likely had significant rage triggered to proceed with the attack. He certainly had no concerns about who was making the beast with two backs with who.

George Nixon Shuler 20 days ago

Abraham's Plea for Sodom

From Genesis 18: "20 Then the Lord said, “The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous 21 that I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me. If not, I will know.”

22 The men turned away and went toward Sodom, but Abraham remained standing before the Lord.[d] 23 Then Abraham approached him and said: “Will you sweep away the righteous with the wicked? 24 What if there are fifty righteous people in the city? Will you really sweep it away and not spare[e] the place for the sake of the fifty righteous people in it? 25 Far be it from you to do such a thing—to kill the righteous with the wicked, treating the righteous and the wicked alike. Far be it from you! Will not the Judge of all the earth do right?”

26 The Lord said, “If I find fifty righteous people in the city of Sodom, I will spare the whole place for their sake.”

27 Then Abraham spoke up again: “Now that I have been so bold as to speak to the Lord, though I am nothing but dust and ashes, 28 what if the number of the righteous is five less than fifty? Will you destroy the whole city for lack of five people?”

“If I find forty-five there,” he said, “I will not destroy it.”

29 Once again he spoke to him, “What if only forty are found there?”

He said, “For the sake of forty, I will not do it.”

30 Then he said, “May the Lord not be angry, but let me speak. What if only thirty can be found there?”

He answered, “I will not do it if I find thirty there.”

31 Abraham said, “Now that I have been so bold as to speak to the Lord, what if only twenty can be found there?”

He said, “For the sake of twenty, I will not destroy it.”

32 Then he said, “May the Lord not be angry, but let me speak just once more. What if only ten can be found there?”

He answered, “For the sake of ten, I will not destroy it.”

33 When the Lord had finished speaking with Abraham, he left, and Abraham returned home."

Skipper 18 days ago

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