WCA Details Departure

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UMC and homosexuality

As the Church leadership debates allowing the open sin of homosexuality into the church and appears to want to allow it, I have to wonder what the next stance on abortion will be from the leadership given the New York and other states new laws. Has the church taken stands against these laws? Do our Democratic party supporting memebers support these laws. I must say Satan is very happy with the USA at this time and God is not.

Donald Haley 84 days ago

This is your take

Your take on this is interesting....not necessarily accurate....but nonetheless interesting. As a part of the convening group in Chicago, our desire is to see a return to Scriptural Holiness that leads Methodists in a mission to the least, the last and the lost in ways that gives room for the Transforming Grace of God to work in their lives. It is more than words--but acts of love that verify this love God has so freely given us all. The April meeting is about how we work together in the future. Yes, the decision, if any decision is actually made, will determine the course of our discussions. The WCA has made a commitment to remain in the UMC if the G.C. maintains our current stance WITH accountability. If you carefully look at the Mantra of progressive groups, they are the ones who want to splinter the UMC. Progressives want to make all sides of Wesley's Quadrilateral (by the one, The Quad was developed to describe Wesley's theological processes) equal, giving whichever side best suits us, as the primary source of faith. However, Wesley consistently went back to Scriptures as the final determining factor--something progressives are unwilling to do.

Randy Burbank 87 days ago

ACCOUNTABILITY

As a "rank and file United Methodist" I do not intend to simply pay to support the Annual Conference and "National Church" for Bishops to not uphold church doctrine and in some cases be complicit in allowing disruption of the floor and General Conference and non delegates on the floor.

Thomas Crawford 86 days ago

Hey, Sports Fans, this string is a classic PRE-GAME for the GC2019 Smackdown!

Just 26 days ‘til the big tilt, Progressives vs. Traditionals, with WCA vying for control and millions of Methodists caught in the middle just wanting a quiet, friendly, Spirit-filled church to worship in. This um-insight string, at seven responses as I write this, has it all for a great pre-game:
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1) We’ve got Mr. Burbank leading off with what has to be a classic quote: “The WCA has made a commitment to remain in the UMC if the G.C. maintains our current stance WITH accountability.” This one said it all except, “Read my lips…”
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2) There’s Ms. Betsy stating the obvious, “To say that we are united in Jesus is not enough because we are not in agreement of who Jesus is--everybody works from their own perception… I fully expect this conference to eventually explode or implode depending” She is always on target!
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3) Mr. Anonymous, from the “Show me the money” wing, warns that it will take “big checks” to force any un-amicable split (which implies that he has studied the Episcopal MILLION$ spent on lawyers to keep church properties which are now abandoned Episcopal churches, empty, non-serving, non-reaching communities, non-denomination supporting EMPTY buildings (or bars).
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4) But, the quintessential progressive, Mr. George Nixon Schuler, claims “the Episcopal church is doing just fine, thank you” so that re-defines having over one-thousand churches close over the last 12 years (google it), spending over $18 MILLION on lawsuits against fleeing churches google it), or that its NYC headquarters has been up for sale for years. That’s “doing just fine”? Well, with a record like that, what could go wrong?
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5) And, there’s ol’ Reese who lumps the UMC with the Titanic on a cruise to lose it all. Let’s launch those life boats BEFORE the bow goes under!
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Yes, I know this is a serious situation, but I submit that we all not take ourselves too seriously. Let’s understand that we can ALL love Jesus and try to follow and serve and promote Him in our OWN way, but that we do have differing moral, social and spiritual commitments in these confusing, conflicted times which are undeniable, non-negotiable, and mutually exclusive. Might we find more progress - and serve others better - if we split?

Reese 86 days ago

Conferences

I think once we break down into conferences, people aren't going to leave their churches empty. People in Dothan not liking people in Montgomery is not our problem. We need to make this about getting people in Dothan and Montgomery to come to a consensus.

Anonymous 84 days ago

Au Contraire! We of small towns find consensus with Sodom and Gomorrah?

Me thinks betting on "world peace" would be the safer bet. I agree that the churches won't completely empty, but there might not be enough plate left to pay the preachers, the staff and the light bill for many. "Consensus" implies compromise and on issues of morality, I just don't see any room on either side. This is not just about the homosexual issue, but Austin and Houston, for examples, are bastions of liberal logic across a wide spectrum and thus impossible for this Texan to understand or accept. I know I'm not alone.

Reese 84 days ago

My view of GC2019

It will not solve the conflict it will only define how it plays out. I sincerely doubt that any of the plans will put an end of the 50+ years of numerical decline that has the potential to make the American branch of the UMC disappear in the next few decades. I am not the only laity that is tired of the inconsistency and randomness of The UMC. As the person from Austin commented, in our neck of the woods we are theologically all over the map and that has produced theologically non-descript churches who blow in the wind with whatever pastor of staff walks in the door-I am a member of such a church. To say that we are united in Jesus is not enough because we are not in agreement of who Jesus is--everybody works from their own perception. So yes, if the One Church Plan passes I fully expect this conference to eventually explode or implode depending on how soon somebody lights the fuse on the question of sexuality that will now be hanging over the conference and every local church like a bomb if the One Church Plan passes. My guess is, thanks to the presence of Austin, the conference leans progressive but not by any huge majority...

betsy 88 days ago

Big checks

These guys are going to need some big checks. The annual conferences aren't going to give away their assets. We may break apart, but it will be into conferences. Then each annual conference will decide the issue and decide whether they want to band together with like minded conferences.

Or we stay together. We'll see.

Anonymous 90 days ago

So, how to avoid the calamity Episcopalians now suffer?

“Anonymous”, I always get the feeling you are a bishop or insider who knows much of what is behind the curtain. So, please comment on how the UMC, now within 30 days of chaos, should model its dissolution? Like the Lutheran split, which in hindsight appears to have been relatively painless, or the more recent Presbyterians who seems to have had their share of lawsuits, but not nearly as debilitating as the Episcopalians who have managed to subsidize the legal profession in dollars to rival chasing ambulances?
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Note Mr. Holland’s statement, “The One Church Plan is the calm, rational choice for the future of the United Methodist Church.” Seriously? Like the Hindenburg as choice for the future of aviation, maybe. OCP is sometimes noted by um-insight contributors as chaos, moving the homosexual debate down to the conferences and the local churches. In my hometown of Austin, Texas, some UM churches have gone full liberal while other UM Churches an hour’s drive away remain traditional – and, of course, the majority of UM churches are somewhere in between. There will be endless fights for control of the conference and endless fights for control of the local churches. A “calm, rational choice”?
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Once the Titanic hit the iceberg, it's future was sealed. All the prayers, hand-wringing, and blaming made no difference, there was no changing the outcome. Once the cancer of liberalism fully metastasized in the UMC with regular ignoring of the BOD rules, exclamation point being the ordination of a lesbian bishop, there is no changing the final outcome. We can all work together to launch as many lifeboats as possible and thereby continue as much of our denomination’s good works as possible, or we can pay lawyers over assets. As the AA suggests, “God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change; courage to change the things I can; and wisdom to know the difference.”

Reese 89 days ago

This is reprehensible

"The cancer of liberalism"? Seriously? Why even pretend to be Christian when using such despicable hate speech, when the person who so characterizes a varied ideology in such terms directly rejects the ministry of the Founder of Liberalism, Jesus Christ of Nazareth? The writer is not only overcome by hatred, but detached from reality as well. The Episcopal Church is doing quite well, thank you very much, despite the loss of members in name only. The number of actual Episcopals leaving due to social change for right-wing satrapies is and always has been miniscule. Church membership matters less and less and even The Churches of What's Happening Now, the megachurches, are crumbling as their business plans based on charismatic preachers collapse amid scandal after scandal concerning these grifters.

The sooner we jettison the extreme right-wing political players like the WCA the better. All they care about is their own brand of political correctness and their desire to continue to oppress as many people as possible. They are a stumbling block for all persons of good character. Let them go their separate ways. The other fundamentalist groups hoped to raise up a "Joshua Generation" of young extremists, but instead those youth sequestered in so-called "Christian Schools" have busted out and are now calling themselves the Exvangecals. Follow the Pied Piper of Hatred into the void, WCA and your phony venom-filled hatemongers.

George Nixon Shuler 88 days ago

No insider.

I think I'm just walking through what the structure of the Church is, and then assuming that is correct, walking through how the various actors will want to proceed. I've been a member in a small rural church and a more liberal in-town church which I think does give me some prospective on how those groups think. The progressives out West seem to be operating on a completely different playbook than what I'm used to.

Anonymous 86 days ago


Notable Quotes   


     "Personally, I just want the infighting and the time and energy this issue has taken away from the church to be in mission and evangelism to end. If it means an amicable parting, then so be it. Sad as that may be I have to believe that it is God’s will and not mine."

– Rev. Terry L. Tilton, Chisholm (Minn.) United Methodist Church, writing in the Hibbing (Minn.) Daily Tribune.

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