New Era Begins with Resistance, Warnings

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This Article Sums It Up: “It’s Over, It’s All Over!”

It’s the Media Mentions at the end which leave no doubt; UMC is done and done. There are stories of major churches and groups completely ignoring the GC2019 rules, there are major churches and groups leaving in disgust over the internal strife. With both sides leaving, who will turn out the lights?
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Meanwhile, the traditional WCA has published their own Book of Discipline which is clearly a “We’re out of here” message.
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Plus, there’s seminaries and universities which want to “dis-affiliate”. Of course, they do, but you bet they’re expecting the same level of financial support! Educators are all about grants. These educators are liable to get a real lesson in economics…
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So, in two pages, Ms. Astle made this point to me; Methodists are leaving through every door. For anyone to hustle votes to “win” at the GC2020 is a fool’s errand. It’s over. It’s all over!

Reese 270 days ago

I don't think so

It is certainly a time of upheaval. The UMC had been 'collecting' groups over the past decades. It was overdue for a bit of schism, I think.

You can only herd cats in the direction they want to go; we now have a lot of cats who aren't interested in the same things. I think the explosion of non-denominational churches has unintentionally fueled some of the UMC discord (and we can discuss that if you like).

Here's an opportunity. Let's not fight, let's figure out a win-win here.

JR 269 days ago

Seems My Argument Got Some UMC Legs today...

Well now, looky here, today's news headlines from CNN (I ONLY quote because Fox News confirmed the report):

"United Methodist Church proposes historic split over gay marriage and LGBT clergy
By Ray Sanchez, CNN Updated 3:42 PM ET, Fri January 3, 2020" (

UMC News has the story. So, straight from the horse's mouth, looks like the bishops have seen the obvious. Gee, that only took four decades...
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Oh well, it sure beats the path chosen by the Episcopal church.
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Finally, I will debate your observation, "I think the explosion of non-denominational churches has unintentionally fueled some of the UMC discord (and we can discuss that if you like)." I humbly submit that much of the explosion of non-denominational churches has been as a RESULT of the cancer of liberalism having metastasized in the UMC, Lutheran, Episcopal churches (among others, perhaps).

Reese 269 days ago

Liberalism as a cancer?

It is difficult to have a productive conversation with someone who calls an entire world view a "cancer". Such a statement says more about the speaker than it does about the subject matter. That said, what we may be living through is the next "Great Emergence "(Phyllis Tickle), after which the entire concept of what we view as a denomination may be a thing of the past.

John Phillip Gudikunst 267 days ago

We Are Far Past "Productive Conversations"

UMC has been "conversationing" for 40+ years. Finally, REALITY is setting in: where there are mutually exclusive positions, a conversation in search of compromise is a waste of time and money. The Way Forward charade was a series of secret conversations to promote a "compromise" that completely ignored the core beliefs of a significant number of traditionals. On the other hand, the new rules of GC2019 was exactly the same in the opposite direction. What was "productive" about those conversations?
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Liberals condemn my traditional values at every opportunity. Those morals of thousands of years, not to mention of my culture and family for generations, are scoffed at, laughed at and belittled. We are accused of "hatred" and worse for our views on same-sex marriage or men in women's bathrooms. How would that prejudice against my values and traditional morals facilitate any "Productive Conversation"? Indeed, there is no possibility.
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So, describe me as you like and I shall continue to label something that slowly kills, a cancer. And, if there is any courage and action among those with the power to change our situation, we shall never have to engage in conversation again. Peace

Reese 266 days ago

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