And Are We Yet Alive?

MEMO for Those Who Preach



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I'm confused

My internet search seems to indicate that Reformed LDS has accepted gay membership, blessed weddings, and ordained ministers since 2013. The LDS (Mormons) decided to allow the sons of same-sex parents to be ordained last month. I don't believe the sons can be gay, however.

The Reorganized LDS felt that Joseph Smith III was the proper successor and refused to follow Brigham Young to Utah.

Anonymous more than 2 years ago


Interesting, but also not very relevant, considering LDS groups are non-Trinitarian and thus fall outside of foundational Christian understandings (as do the UUA, Oneness Pentecostals, and other fringe groups beyond the pale). Our theologies and anthropologies in light of those theologies are different enough that we will not recognize each others' baptisms.

John more than 2 years ago

First there was the darkness.

"Are we going to be the last group to see the light?"

No, I think that the UMC as it is won't see the light at all. You'd have to be looking for it.

When the UMC splits, one side will step cleanly into the light. The other will gnaw on it's own innards - I expect full regression within a generation, eliminating women in pastoral roles (they might get to remain as deacons, but will be eventually excluded from Bishop or Elder roles)... I'm not sure that the racial segregation will happen again, due to the power of the overseas contingency. But it's going to spiral downwards, never looking for the light you describe.

Anonymusing more than 2 years ago

What leads you to those expectations?

Liberal, mainline Methodism, not evangelical Methodism, historically has been the late-adopting institution. Wesleyan-Holiness bodies like the Free Methodists, Nazarenes, and Salvation Army ordained women decades before the liberal, mainline Methodist/UM church did. Those same bodies, along with historically African-American Methodist groups, stood against racism and slavery long before the liberal, mainline Methodist church. Evangelical Methodists have more in common with Wesleyan-Holiness and African-American Methodist bodies than they do with mainline-leaning elements of Methodism. There's no basis to expect regression.

John more than 2 years ago

"There's no basis to expect regression."

*points at the Traditionalist Plan*

If you are going to base the rules of the denomination on literal Biblical passages, there's a clear path backwards.

Perhaps the denomination drifts backwards and forwards with every issue. I think it's much more likely that it has simply been a slow adopter of new ideas. But this shift backwards, in retaliation towards those trying to push the line forward... that's going to bite hard, and the only way the Traditionalists are going to be able to hold that line is to 'load up for bear' and force compliance.

Look at the various items that they were pushing through as part of the plan - the ability to force Bishops into involuntary leave of absences, the requirement that a 'just resolution' include an accuser's agreement... those are tools. Those kinds of tools are going to be used.

And every cycle is going to be more regressive.

Anonymusing more than 2 years ago