Mistaking the Symptoms for the Cause of #UMC Schism

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Expanding my thoughts

What I see is you are too focused on one subset of people when in God's eyes, ALL LIVES MATTER even those who disagree with you! As I have experienced it, the progressive sexuality agenda is its own proof that when you try to make things "fair" for one group of people, things become very unfair for everybody else. With the election of Karen Oliveto, the Western Jurisdiction has now forced their specific beliefs on the rest of the church. Give me one example when Jesus FORCED others to accept his teachings. What happened after Jesus told the rich young ruler he had to sell everything he had? Jesus allowed him to walk away sad! Jesus ate with the "unclean" but give me one example where he forced anybody else to do what he was doing. For Jesus it was never about forcing people to accept his teachings, it was about allowing people to choose to follow him! Methodism is not in existence because John Wesley forced anybody to even listen to his message about God. It is in existence because he stood in a field or on a street and started talking, people came to listen and then some of the people came to him with the question "What does this mean for my life?" and he endeavored to answer the question. Since 1972, you have spoken your message, the church as a whole is not convinced, I am not convinced, so you decide to work outside the designated processes and hijack the church. How would you respond if the situation was reversed? You are in the driver's seat, where do we go from here?

Betsy more than 4 years ago

All Lives Matter!

And the rest of the problem is you are too focused on one subset of people when in God's eyes, ALL LIVES MATTER even those who disagree with you! The progressive sexuality agenda is its own proof that when you try to make things "fair" for one group of people, things become very unfair for everybody else! And another thing, with the election of Karen Oliveto, the Western Jurisdiction has forced their specific beliefs on the rest of the church. Give me one example when Jesus FORCED others to accept his teachings! What happened after Jesus told the rich young ruler he had to sell everything he had? Jesus allowed him to walk away sad! For Jesus it was never about forcing people to accept his teachings, it was about allowing people to choose to follow him!

Btsy more than 4 years ago

And the problem is...

We continue to come at this from two totally perspectives. I for one am very weary of a denomination that has disintegrated into factions who are competing for position and power and live to take pot shots at each other. Woohoo! The argument has evolved from sexuality into 'You're being schismatic." "No I'm not, you are the one being schismatic". Sheesh! You are all nuts. Just walk away and let the UMC die a quiet death!

Betsy more than 4 years ago

An Episcopal Priest who was my mentor...

...was the first female priest assigned to her parish. This was in the 1990s, so, you'd think people would have come around by then, but many fought her assignment there. One greeted her with, "I was one of the people who tried to stop you from coming here!" My mentor accepted that. She neither attacked nor apologized, but somehow as time went by they became good friends. The conservative member never apologized either but they worked together for the good of the parish.

Some say such an occurrence is unlikely to happen at a UMC church who is assigned an LGBT pastor against the will of the vocal majority there. No evidence is ever given for this assertion, however. But the fact is except for activist sorts on either side, opinions on such things are a mile wide and an inch deep, just like opposition to female Episcopal Priests was. There are no significant differences between the two parallel dynamics.

Now as to this "covenant" group, I don't know of them, but I suppose they are another segment of the right-wing caucuses within the UMC. Their name is in itself a battle cry; by declaring themselves "covenantal" they imply those who disagree with them are not. That in itself reveals they are not what they claim to be.

George Nixon Shuler more than 4 years ago

re Symptons

The election of Karen Olivier as bishop while s challenge is not irrevocable snd the SEJ has appealed it to the Judicial Council and if that fails they will take it to the next General Conference where they will likely succeed in removing her.
Her election calls attention to the glaring imbalance in the conversation: no openly LGBT clergy are present. No face to face discussion. Rather it is discussion about those not present and made invisible by prohibition. It would not be tolerable if the discussion were about Latinos, women or African Americans. So temporary as it may be Bishop Oliveto's election claims the right to be present as this matter is decided.

Sarah Flynn more than 4 years ago

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