What Would It Take to Convince Me I Am Wrong on the Gay & Lesbian Issue



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God loves diversity!!!!!!!!!!!!

Craig, Jesus NEVER condemned those of us who love someone of our own gender!!! He DID SAY that He had more to teach us than He had time for during the few years on Earth, and would send Holy Spirit. Are we listening???
There have always been gay men and lesbians in every generation, on every continent and island. We are a constant minority among you!!!! God just seems to love diversity and gives us all different gifts and talents to share. How dare the UMC say in her policy that "sex is God's good gift to humankind" and then ask a minority of us NOT TO OPEN THAT GIFT????????? God just never created all of us heterosexual......get used to the fact!!!!!!!!!
Of all the verses quoted against us, I hope you don't believe that the sex the drunken gang at Lot's house was homosexual sex. It would have been GANG RAPE. Homosexuality by definition is a person loving someone of the same sex.
Verses in the New Testament refer to fertility rites or personality traits that is not necessarily non-heterosexual.
I, for one, have NEVER used the "divorce is now OK so homosexuality should also be OK" argument. Getting over your use of scripture to defend slavery or to keep women from voting or from being ordained is much more like the mis-use of scripture to make gay men and lesbians second-class members of The UMC.
We would not be short of seminary trained clergy if we stopped refusing to ordain gay men and lesbians, and stopped de-frocking those already ordained!!!!!!
Get used to the idea that God loves diversity and does not create everyone as heterosexual!!!!!! We have been faithful followers of Jesus since He walked among us and faithful members of UMC since she was formed: clergy, choir directors, choir members, sunday school teachers, youth leaders, UMW members, UMM members, hymn writers, organizers of pot lucks, faithful members and community leaders. We have always been among you. Now many states honor our partnerships with legal marriages. We want the conger-
gations we have served to honor our relationships, too.

Elsie Gauley Vega more than 9 years ago

Response to d

I wrote a response to "d" but it is too long to post here. http://www.craigladams.com/blog/files/some-sideb-objections.html

Craig L. Adams more than 9 years ago

Jesus tells us to love God & each other

It's that simple. "My last and greatest command to you; love one another as I have loved you." The greatest man who ever lived said that on his way to be executed. Then he demonstrated the truth of his word by returning from death. it's not easy to follow Jesus. You are called on to love people who may seem unlovable, even frightening. But this is the path of true Christianity.
I'm straight. I go to a church that welcomes gays. Some of them have become my friends. They are not monsters, they are nice people. They just want to go to church so they can love God and their neighbors in the Christian way. I know it's natural to be afraid of those who are different, but please try to understand. Gays & lesbians are born the way they are. How can it be a sin to be what God made you to be?

God calls you to love your neighbors, and even your enemies. My church brothers & sisters are not your enemies, they want to be your friends. Give them a chance. "Do good even to those who treat you despitefully." nd "Judge not lest you be judged".

Brian Niegemann more than 9 years ago

Divorce and Christian Teaching

Thank you for putting so clearly what I have long believed about Christians' increasing tolerance of divorce and remarriage. Jesus explicity opposed these. Yet many Christians have become comfortable with them because so many Christians decided to practice them. So why do many Christians (some of them divorced and remarried, I have to believe) oppose so vehemently something about which Jesus never said a word, namely same-sex relationships? Let us please take everything Jesus said seriously, less ready to condemn others than we are to be honest about ourselves.

Jeanne Devine more than 9 years ago

What would it take to convince me (you)?

Would real stories of pain and misery inflicted by churches help? Would stories of those who have survived the pain and finally found acceptance and love in congregations that accept them and their love for what they are - good and Godly? What about stories from heterosexual people whose families were destroyed by a church's rejection when a family member was known to be gay?
All those stories are available to you. Look around a little. Or ask again.

Anne Ewing more than 9 years ago

A little clarification

This was originally posted as a follow-up to an earlier post defending a SideB perspective on same-gender sex. That can be found here: http://www.craigladams.com/blog/files/why-xtn-opposition-to-homosexuality-never-dies.html

Craig L. Adams more than 9 years ago

Thanks for the earnestness of your post

it's rare that we read about someone's take on this issue without it bearing a polemical or ideological (by which i mean willingly indifferent to information counter to one's desired point). so, thank you for the sincerity and earnestness of this post.

here's where i've landed on the topic, and i hope it helps.

in the pre-marriage counseling sessions i remember reading a nun's opinion on marriage that sticks with me, even though the author's name doesn't. she assers that the reason marriage is a sacrament is that by joining in a loving relationship you are better able to advance Christ in the world. that ironically what appears to be a constraint is actually quite liberating. in a loving marriage one feels a soul-centered freedom to take risks and be loving in the world confident that a partner will continue to abide with you. her language was poetry and i'm not doing it justice. i'm hoping that you with good marriages can recognize the feelings of confidence and divine joy the relationship brings. that's all to say that a good marriage takes focus away from the distracting things - like an overemphasis on the single's markets, or the insecurity of a life without a bracing person.

when a relationship of deep intimacy makes it possible to follow Jesus and stay in love with God, then God is in the midst of that relationship. It is divine and holy.

obviously, this qualification doesn't encompass all gay marriages, or all straight marriages for that matter. and i wish i could describe the feelings accurately. but when sharing love and witness and Christ is a result of the rootedness of your marriage relationship it is blessed. when you've exchanged the anxiety and instability of life for one of confidence in the faith (this would apply to "coming out" as well) then how can it not be called a relationship "of God?"

the relationships that enable you to love God and advance Christ are holy and a spiritually aware church recognizes them.

l more than 9 years ago

Gay and Lesbian

I posted the following on the Methoblog site where your original thread was posted also. I would be interested in your answers and comments if you are inclined to answer.

Maybe both sides need to stop making unreasonable unobtainable demands on one another.
Maybe the key is to stop trying to reconcile what can not be reconciled.

The word reconcile really has two meaning.
One is to cause a person to accept.
The word reconcile can also be used to mean make something holy.

For the left to insist the right accept homosexuality as holy is not going to happen.
For the right to insist homosexuals, that embrace the lifestyle, change is an unreasonable demand.
That is not going to happen.

The UMC has taken a stand and the stand is clearly stated .
Attempts to change the BOD have been unsuccessful for years.
The UMC has declared the UMC’s position reasonable and in line with God’s devine revelation.
The left disagrees.
The outcome of forcing either side will not result in reconciliation but division.

Those on the right, who believe UMC has embraced the correct interpretation of scripture have an obligation to defend that position, instruct the church and enforce church law.
To do less is irresponsible, sends mixed messages and confuses the church body.

Those on the left who have decided they disagree with the BOD and can not live with the position UMC holds as it stands. To date the left has tried to force the church body into reconciliation by protest and breaking church law. To demand acceptance of homosexuality from those on the right that strongly disagree is unreasonable. It is like asking a confirmed dedicated practicing homosexual to give up the lifestyle.
It is not going to happen.

C.S.Lewis is an interesting study and Christians on both ides could learn a few things from this man.
In the life of C.S. Lewis can be found some great things the Christian Church hopes to accomplish.
Lewis would turn from Atheist to one of the great Apologists of the Christian Church.
As stated earlier, Lewis was able to maintain a lifelong friendship with a man who was homosexual.
Lewis embraced the man but rejected the lifestyle and spoke against the practice.
Although both led different lives and held opposing position they were able to be friends for life and be at peace with each other.
I am sure they did not make unreasonable demand on each other to maintain that friendship.
Lewis and Arthur Greeves maintained their friendship mainly by letters and correspondence over a lifetime.
They did not live nor did they attempt to live in the same house.

d more than 9 years ago

Gay & Lesbian Issues

You have expressed all you think wrong, so what would you do?
How would you handle the problem?
How would you teach what is sin and not offend?
How would you uphold scripture and Church Law but still be welcoming and inclusive?

Why do you assume the right lies when most of what they share of the homosexual lifestyle is found in Gay literature by their own hand available for all to read on homosexual sites, books, articles and homosexual activists?
Why do you assume study of that literature is of evil intent when the intent could just as easily be to come to an informed decision?

Now that you have pointed out what is wrong, share with us how to do it right.

d more than 9 years ago