Prove Me Wrong, Please



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Prove me wrong

Who selected the members of this Connectional Table? How do we know they represent the views of the people within The UMC? Seventeen of the 59 members of the CT voted to recommend a change to the BOD. If that ratio holds true through the next GC then your prediction will come true. Looks like the CT just wants to keep doing the same thing over and over hoping for a different result. What a waste of time.

Kevin more than 7 years ago

A Via Media

"That's because anti-LGBT forces in every annual conference make sure that only those of like mind, with the time and money to serve, can get elected as General Conference delegates."

Sr. Cynthia: You know I have the greatest respect for you and your work, but I have to disagree with this blanket statement here. Having had experience in both the New England Conference and the Greater NJ Conference, and indeed, having a finger on a bit of the pulse of the entire Northeastern Jurisdiction, this is absolutely not true. In fact, all of the New England Conference's delegates to General Conference 2012 were progressives, as were many of Greater NJ's delegates. Having spent time in the New England Conference, the climate there is often completely antagonistic towards conservatives.

Also, to lay the politicizing and corruption at the feet of "anti-LGBT forces" is, from my perspective, unfair and wrong. The Love Prevails crowd and some other "pro-LGBT forces" are examples of left-wing politicizing and dissension; their bullying tactics at the Connectional Table are prime examples.

As you likely know with my work at Via Media Methodists (, I identify as neither progressive nor conservative, but simply as a follower of Jesus Christ in the United Methodist way, seeking an elevated level of discourse within a denomination that seems to be fracturing more each day. I have been highly critical of both "sides" as not faithfully living into their baptismal vows, and I pray that God continues to work in and through us, despite deep difference.

Grace and peace -
Rev. Evan Rohrs-Dodge, OSL

Evan Rohrs-Dodge more than 7 years ago

Questions for you

So you claim there is blame on both sides. Fine. Then, tell me this, Padre: Where have antigay forces treated our LGBT brothers and sisters with love and respect? Where? I've never seen it. Read their hate-dripping magazine, "Good News." Everything in it is gay, gay gay! they are obsessed with their prejudices against LGBT Christians, except when they delve into their hatred of women who obtain abortion! You know it's true. Where is the spirit of inclusion within them? It's not there. They want to make the UMC a bastion of extremist theocracy and exclude everyone they hate. Where have you ever found a progressive person wanting to kick out the right-wing? We love them but we hate their sins. There cannot be an elevated level of discourse when one side seeks to deny employment to people, to exclude them from facilities like the New Jersey wedding pavillion that belongs to a UMC entity, to deny them custody of their children, and to deny fellowship with them. Wake up! Read the venom-filled comments here about "homos" and so on. Get a clue!

George Nixon Shuler more than 7 years ago

Via Media

I love your commentary. Why don't you head on over to the Via Media site and post a few comments? Don't hold back. Be sure and give them your best stuff.

Kevin more than 7 years ago

I Have Hope

I was so angry at 2012 General Conference - it was as close to a disaster as one could imagine - that I knew, once it was over, that it actually marked the end of an era. I remember well the stories from the 1992 GC (and two members of the study committee were on faculty at Wesley Seminary, which I entered in 1990; the stories I heard about the committee and its proceedings . . .), with the Memphis Declaration, the rise of the Confessing Movement. It is not that time, though. As a denomination, we face some hard choices, not the least of them theological - living up to the demand to love our neighbors! On a practical level, we have the decline in youth participation, the legalization of same-sex marriage in more jurisdictions that is going to put pressure on pastoral integrity, and what I just personally sense is a kind of last-gasp of that whole movement that arose in force in the early 1990's. Most of all, there are many United Methodists who are tired, angry, and ready for change. Is the process corrupt? Then perhaps some prayer is in order, as well as some organizing.

Geoffrey more than 7 years ago

General Comment

Well written, Cynthia.

Looking at some of the issues the Episcopal Church in America has, primarily about property, do you think the LGBT members of the UMC have considered other options? I realize that people really get passionate about some things, on both sides of an issue, but since this issue has been voted down at every General Conference (with some minor exceptions) for decades, shouldn't they realize that a change is not forthcoming soon? Is their intent to force a schism in which neither side "wins"? That's what is happening now with all the politics and dissent going on. I really don't think either side wants that. My opinion has always been this: when joining an organization, if I agree with most of their charter, constitution, rules, etc, I will accept them, even if I disagree. If it comes to the point that I disagree with more than I agree, then I will simply leave the organization and go join another that I agree more with. This is NOT happening in the UMC. A very small percentage is trying to mount a coup, and it's not going to be. Why beat your head against the wall? I personally have done that, especially in my earlier years, and as I've grown older and hopefully wiser, I don't do it so much.

Would you personally fight a painful battle for your whole life knowing that you could simply leave the UMC and start your own church?

Carl Fuglein more than 7 years ago

Just leave?

I giving up my church family because many United Methodists have drawn a line in the sand on this issue is crazy! Pull my children from their friends and teachers?! What a selfish thing to do. Change only comes when we make it happen. Did Jesus walk away every time he did not like something? No, he stayed and taught and engaged. That is what we will continue to do.

Kimberly more than 7 years ago