A Tale Of Two Deaths: One Person; One Denomination



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You’ve got Rob all wrong!

Can you please send me the words when Rob said “we hate gays.” You CANNOT make such a claim without giving it a reference. You obviously do not listen to Renfroe’s weekly messages. It’s often about forgiveness and ALL of us falling short. I’ve never heard him call out gays! I’ve never heard him condemn those who are divorced as you say. Does he speak about our sins as written in Scripture? Absolutely! We all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. In order to explain the magnitude of Christ on the Cross! There has never been condemnation from his mouth, only teaching of the forgiveness we’ve been given and how we need to forgive ourselves and live in that precious grace and grow in that blessing. I honestly don’t understand where all your, what appears to be, hatred stems against Rob. His only purpose is to teach the written Word of God. And he does that with the Holy Spirit, that is very evident. He is not condemning gays, he’s staying strong in the Word by not allowing gay marriage and gay leadership. That goes against the written Word. Doesn’t mean gays are not welcomed into the church as the rest of us sinners. Can you have a pastor on staff that is knowingly having an affair? Of course not! That does not model God’s character. And how can you EVER say women are to be silent and submissive according to Rob? Give me a reference when he said that. He has a phenomenal female pastor that works with him whom he respects and encourages. There are so many holes in this message I just can’t point them all out. If you actually listened to Rob’s message that you posted with an open heart and ears, all that you’ve said would be null and void. Including the Africans not being the majority but 40%. If you actually let God into your mind and heart and hear his words, you will see he is standing by Scripture for our church future. But allows those who are against it to go out and find another way with his blessing. NO condemnation, just not a place in the United Methodist church. As it should be! We stand FIRMLY on the inspired written Word of God. We as a denomination CANNOT waiver from it because modern times have changed. God’s Word is unchanging, unwaivering, that’s what our faith has been built upon. You start messing with that, you begin member’s questioning the stable, ancient, inspired Word of God. And all just to suit your new world living. The Word NEVER changes. If you don’t want to follow it, then go find a denomination that suits your needs. Don’t wreck a beautiful thing we’ve got, that lives and loves the TRUE Word of God. Rob is not in a war to suit himself, he’s in a war to preserve the written Word of God and the United Methodist Church. I’ve never seen someone so distraught over this and that’s only what I’ve seen in a Sunday morning service. I can only imagine his deep feelings. There is no man I’ve ever seen who is going to bat to ensure the written Word is not screwed by modern man than Rob Renfroe.

Michelle Pope more than 2 years ago

Excuse me. Are we "right wing" who simply want our old church as it was?

The church I grew up in never got into all this sex baloney. Boys and girls pretty much understood what it was all about, having been taught by parents and other moral leaders, scouts and schools. We had no confusion on which restroom we were to go into and knew penalties if we strayed. When we watched babies being baptized and then later were told how those babies came to be, it all made sense. Now, you liberals want to turn my old church into Sodom and Gomorrah, which will have a most predictable ending, but you want to blame we who just want our old church back? Not buying it!

Reese more than 3 years ago

Not So

"We had no confusion on which restroom we were to go into...."

Speak for yourself. I grew up intersex in the sixties, and there never were easy decisions.

G-d made me this way, and yet people like you have tormented me my entire life. Enough with ignorance and biggotry! Study biology and learn something about human anatomy.

Ben more than 3 years ago

I studied Biology and I worked in plumbing and my plumbing is male!

Your proper restroom depends on your personal plumbing. If you are confused about that, that is a head problem not a plumbing problem. Deal with it the best you can, but public restrooms, especially in schools, is not the place. By the way, there are private stalls in men's rooms so you can go do your thing in private and nobody will know. I have seen men for years pass up urinals and go to private stalls. Who cares? Just stay out of the ladie's room where my wife and daughters and grand-daughters are - you might be harmless, but the pedophile who follows you in pretending to be might not be harmless. I must consider my ladies' safety above your hurt feelings. Sorry, pal.

Reese more than 3 years ago

And just for the record

It was while I was monitoring GC2012 that I first became aware of the theological plurality that has run amuck in The UMC; my sense was the denomination was already dead but was too big to fall down just yet. At that point I visualized The UMC as a ginormous square raft with umpteen oars in the water each paddling the best it knows how. Sometime later, as I continued cruising the internet listening to all the voices I could find within the UMC, my visualization of the church changed to water spilled on the floor running multiple directions at once. By the time GC2016 was over the church had become cats with their tails tied together. Bottom line is there is no single way forward for The United Methodist Church which drifted from its unique theological moorings a very long time ago.

betsy more than 3 years ago

From my perspective

It is progressives who will have their way even if it destroys the church. So where is the basis for a future together?

betsy more than 3 years ago


Progressive here.

I'd be happy if the UMC would merely agree to remove the ugly biggoted anti-GLBT rhetoric from the Book of Discipline. In other words, I only request that you stop publically shaming me for merely being the person G-d made me.

There is no room in the UMC for bullying or flat-out meaness.

Ben more than 3 years ago

Two questions, Ben...

First, I don't bully. I do ignore and avoid things I do not agree with, but my ego does not require me to bully. You live your life and I live mine and may we both find happiness here and salvation there.
How exactly would you re-word the BoD which would be non-insulting to you, but would still define our leadership rules and marriage rules to exclude lifestyles that are not acceptable to we traditionalists? Let all sit in the pews with me and other sinners, but ask me not to approve, endorse, encourage alternative lifestyles. How do we word that?
#2 If you are so miserable in the UMC,why have you stayed? The Episcopal church worships the same God and is most welcoming. Others too. I do not stay where I am not happy, why have you?
No time for hate within me. Accepting ll as a child of Jesus, but not as a leader of my religion. Find peace, Ben.

Reese more than 3 years ago

Your use of the demeaning term lifestyle

reveals your confusion and malice. One's capacity to love is not a lifestyle, spoken with a cruel sneer as you have.

Reese, if you can't accept same sex marriage, then don't marry someone of the same sex. Problem solved. I'll waive your copay.

George Nixon Shuler more than 3 years ago