The Problems of a Global Traditionalist Church

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Allies Are Only Allies

Much of the time, allies are only allies as long as their is an enemy..

Example: The Soviet Union was an ally of the US up until V-J Day when it reverted to being a mutual enemy.

I still haven't been told and can't figure out why the Africans ever wanted anything to do with America except as a source of start up money.

Whatever happened to anticolonial self determination?

Richard F Hicks 110 days ago

What you miss re traditionalists

I monitored the development of this situation beginning with GC2012 all the way through GC2019. What galvanized traditionalists after GC2012 was not the progressive view re sexuality but the disobedience. The elephant in the room that is not addressed is just exactly how does the UMC move forward when many of those in positions of leadership and influence make it very plain that they no longer feel constrained to abide by the decision making processes of the church which designates that General Conference is the only thing empowered to make decisions on behalf of the whole church. Every pastor ordained as an Elder in Full Connection said that they understood how the United Methodist Church functioned and were willing to live by its decisions. And now they are saying they don't have to. When we no longer agree on the role General Conference and the Discipline plays in the life of the church, then we do have a serious problem and no way forward with any integrity.

betsy 110 days ago

Well put

Betsy, Thanks for your comments. I agree and continue to be amazed that so many others cannot see this.

Scott S 108 days ago

What if...

Thanks David Kingsworthy for your insightful comments.
As I read the David Scott article, my mind kept drifting off to speculation as to the alternative future of a split in the UMC in which a new denomination is birthed in the USA, and the global (non-USA) United Methodists all decide to stay within the UMC. As the UMC-USA suddenly is reduced in size and continues to dwindle in numbers and presumably the African UMC numbers continue to rise, will we see the progressive church in the USA do better at the very things David Scott is forecasting above? Have we not already seen progressive churches and Conferences cutting support for African mission work as a spiteful response to the 2019 General Conference? Have we not seen the WCA attempt to continue the funding for these missions/projects? Will the wealthy progressive Americans allow the UMC global church to be lead by a non-USA majority who are more orthodox in theology?

Scott S 111 days ago

Presumptive & misleading

The presumptiveness of this piece is extensive -- "What happens when....?" can be a legitimate approach but here is overused and clearly doesn't acknowledge the possibilities for positive, instructive results. Furthermore the lack of context is breathtaking, attributing to the WCA an arrogance which is not voiced by them -- here is the actual complete quote from Boyette's article: "Paul faced local idiosyncrasies, myopic visions, and efforts to shape the gospel to accommodate a particular setting. He responded by being unwavering in his call for all of us to be under the Lordship of Jesus Christ. He overcame regional prejudices, ethnic tensions, economic differences, and social distinctions to mold the early church into a cohesive body that enveloped and impacted the world of Paul’s day." The author of this piece loses direction with the what-if questions and discredits himself through lack of context.
Have I adequately taken the bait?

David Kingsworthy 111 days ago

global traditionist church

Three points on David's fine, stimulating article. (1) He's on target that a wealth of cultural assumptions can upend the healthy unity and witness of a truly global church. The US conservatives are rightly warned that the African church is not simply a tool for other agendas. That said, I also recall one of the best-known clergy leaders in the self-defined centrist portion of the US church who said, in my presence, in St. Louis after certain votes were taken that the Africans had better remember who was paying their bills and that the centrist/progressive church would not financially support those who undercut them in contested matters. So Scott's warnings swing in all directions. (2) When I read the Boyette article, and realizing the audience to which it was written, I assumed he was speaking to US members as well as others about being cautious of specifically cultural 'idiosyncrasies. I saw nothing dismissive in his words toward those outside the US, but then one's point of view depends on one's point of viewing. (3) I agree David does not speak officially in this article for BOGM but...my experience with general boards, which has involved numerous contacts for over 20 years, has made clear that those who hold views consistent with renewal groups such as WCA have near-zero presence on board leadership and staffing, which is not the case for leaders and staff reflecting UnitingMethodists, Mainstream UMC, and other groups. And this is NOT to equate those with WCA-friendly views as 'true Christians' as opposed to 'others.' Now, if all self-avowed practicing evangelicals among general board leadership (who affirm existing church teaching on the definition of marriage) will please stand...

Bob 110 days ago

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