A Telling Fact

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Not showing "holy love," Steve

Steve, I'm distressed to see you writing these allegations. You have no special insight into the souls of the WCA leadership to make these claims and, frankly, I would have thought pot-shots like this to be beneath you. As for what you allege, the WCA members would surely prefer to stay within a UMC that remained faithful to the call to keep adapting our inclinations and lives to "Scripture holiness" (as Wesley put it) rather than create a new little pond for your imagined big fish. But they are faced, instead, with the future of a UMC that chooses rather to keep adapting "Scripture holiness" to the shifting standards of our culture. Since progressive UMC bishops and elders have not chosen to join themselves over the past decades to any number of mainline denominations that already embraced their vision for affirming homosexual practice as compatible with Christian teaching (why DID you and other like-minded progressives not join yourselves to the ECUSA? the ELCA? the PCUSA? the UCC?), some Methodists are trying to salvage a piece of the denomination that is otherwise being stolen out from under them by elders who have flagrantly violated their ordination vows and their covenant. If we ALL would just abide by the decision of the 2019 (and 2012 and 2008 and 2004 and 2000 and...) General Conference and discipline ourselves to live by the Discipline (is affirming homoerotic practice really worth this endless strife?), the WCA members would not find themselves in this lamentable position. And were we to do this (though the arrogance of those who think they suddenly understand human sexuality and its ethics better than the Scriptures and centuries of Christian thinkers would never permit it) then "the very church they [the WCA] claim is needed" would indeed exist -- as the UMC that General Conference after General Conference has declared that it wanted! The real power play here is not to be found in the WCA, but in the progressive movement within the UMC co-opting this denomination and changing its ethos because they wanted to continue to swim in this pond and make it suit what you've become.

David Arthur deSilva 80 days ago

Existing denominations

Yes, the Wesleyan church has a similar theological position as the WCA. However, the same reasoning can be applied to the progressives. The ELCA Lutheran Church, the USA Prebyterians, the Metropolitan Church and The Episcopal Church all have approved what the progressives want for the UMC. Why don't the progressives merge with one of these denominations?

John Crabtree 152 days ago

Not the same

I am pretty familiar with ELCA, PCUSA, and Episcopalian (not the Metropolitan Church, I don't think I've ever heard of that one). There is some doctrinal overlap, but it's not nearly as close as the Traditionalist view with what I can see of the Wesleyan church.

JR 150 days ago

Wespath

I suspect the $22 billion in Wespath, and the millions in the agency's reserve funds, are reasons enough to fight. Always follow the money.

Metho-Anglican 153 days ago

Holiness churches

I wish someone would write an article about the seminary where the leadership of the WCA and Good News attended. Most of them came from the same seminary, which is a Holiness church seminary. The others went to Baptist seminaries. Why were they ever approved by the Conference Boards of Ordained Ministry in the first place? The majority of Methodists have no idea about these people's background. Isn't it time to "out" them?

Doesn't the editor think the readers have a right to know this??

It's a good story. Decades ago a plot was hatched to take over the UMC's assets by a foreign denomination. They sent these young men out to the various conferences, got them in the door, told them to keep a low profile, and now decades later, it's the time to spring the trap!!!

I think I read a spy novel once with that plot. It was a thriller.

James Bond 153 days ago

Asbury

I suspect the majority of Traditionalist Methodist ministers, at least those in the SE Jurisdiction, attended Asbury. It’s no big secret or conspiracy as you suggest. I prefer to be part of a congregation with ties to Asbury.

John 153 days ago

Seminary

If you are referring to Asbury Theological Seminary (I don't know that you are), it is not a Holiness church seminary. Asbury is non-denominational in the Wesleyan-Holiness tradition, and is approved for training United Methodist clergy. It has been training Methodist and then UM ministers for over 95 years. No financial plot, no conspiracy.

Ric 151 days ago

Uh - The Methodist Church is a Holiness Church

Check your church history. The so called "holiness" denominations and sects arose from Wesley's Methodist movement. Wesley was all over personal holiness and accountability in ways that would never pass muster in today's UMC. Since Methodism has no real confessional document but instead used the Church of England's 39 articles of religion, minus the ones Wesley didn't like that concerned predestination and election, Wesleyan theology has been all over the map for the last 3+ centuries which led to many spin-offs of holiness sects from the Wesleyan movement.

Daniel 150 days ago

Merger

Why would the Wesleyan Church want to merge with the United Methodists who might/are walking away? Here’s why. Dying plus dying doesn’t equal living. Thank you.

Richard F Hicks 154 days ago

Even a pension

A reasonable move could be to have the WCA set up as a subgroup of the UMC - then have them be 'acquired' by the Wesleyan Church, who could get an acceptable transfer of pension value into their own pension funding. The actuarial folks could work through the details, this kind of thing happens in the private sector.

Makes you wonder why this hasn't come up before.

JR 154 days ago

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