76 Percent of U.S. Annual Conferences Reject Traditional Plan

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"100%TRIALS"

This is an important issue to me but after the battles in my previous denominations presbyterian and episcopalion, i don't pay much attention to the combatants these days, what is the significance of :"we have elected our last bishop who promises 100 trials?

RJ Walker 58 days ago

Clergy versus laity

Is there somewhere that has the breakout by laity and clergy for each conference?

Anonymous 72 days ago

We like to vote!

We like to vote, but we don't like to learn. Many years ago the general conference passed that the churches would study the sexuality issue. Wonder how many churches actually did this study. The publishing house had many good resources -- of course we have closed our stores, stopped many publications, Methodist Reporter, Interpreter, then the excellent studies on Communion and Baptism were also requested by general Conference. How many did these excellent resources? It seems that we don't have time to study --- only time to vote. Study might have helped us with this disunity we seem to enjoy now!

Jane Steinegger 59 days ago

76%

“Just walk away Rene...”. And take your money with you. Everyone! On all sides. You’ve been boring me since 1990

Richard F Hicks 79 days ago

Boredom and Cynicism are Not the Same

If you were genuinely bored, I am dubious that you would be here reading this and taking the time to comment on it. I completely understand the internal conflict of watching what has transpired. But I would encourage you to examine your feelings more closely.

Stephan Hill 79 days ago

I thought the same

It's an internet truism that post=care.

JR 79 days ago

Sad just sad...

...it's sad and tragic how far the institutional umc and most of its clergy have strayed from christian teachings and sexual morals. They seem completely unfamiliar with 1 corinthians 5-7 and thousands of years of our religious heritage.

td 80 days ago

Don't forget

1 Corinthians 11:2-15.

JR 79 days ago

Thanks.

I do not equate sexual immorality with paul's talk about head coverings.

I also accept that we disagree. But i don't a accept an institutional church that disowns the christian teaching on sex: sex acts are only holy in marriage; marriage is only between a man and a woman. And, yes, it is a big enough deal that clergy should lose their jobs when they actively do not follow this or encourage others to do the same.

This is the debate, isn't it? You and i understand that the current umc dysfunction is unsustainable and will lead to complete destruction. We understand that a church can not have a doctrinal disagreement about such basic issues.. Why can't our bishops?

td 78 days ago

I also accept that we disagree

I don't really like weaponizing scripture, so it's important to point out that there's a LOT of the Bible that's left on the cutting room floor. A few scenes cut, a few others retained, and we have significantly different plots in our movies.

And that's actually a solid comparison. A movie is a shared experience with a (generally) common understanding of the meaning. Church works the same way. But if we get out of Church radically different understandings of our place and our meaning in the world, there's a problem with the core.

We're watching different movies, while the institution has been trying to convince us that the differences in our versions are inconsequential, when they are not. I've seen more than one film where I walked out of the film horrified by the subtext and disturbed by the imagery, where most of the rest of the people were laughing about it.

There's another article on here I read this morning about the Institutionalism that is a significant part of the problem. When your job is defined by keeping an organization running, breaking the organization into something new isn't part of your job description.

JR 72 days ago

But can Rev Matonga pay for his power?

I keep hearing how Africa and the Philipines are the power bases going forward. Yet they can't seem to pay for anything or pay apportionments. GC has lost its power because the US church realizes that they can financially starve the areas that are trying to control them. And if the map says nothing else it says that the potential financial base for the WCA is small. Ultimately several years of AC's and local US churches financially starving GC will resolve the situation. Look, we all know that much of the global church is far far far behind the US when it comes to human rights, freedom, and liberty. That is the culture they choose. America isn't going back and Africa, Asia, and Eastern Europe will never meet us. So I feel we should let them go their own way. If the WCA chooses to affiliate with them and leave so be it. But this has to end in 2020.

eric 81 days ago

Agreed, except...

Agreed that this has to end. But you've got the cart before the horse. It's the U.S. portion of the UMC that's falling out of sync with the global Christian church and uses the threat of withdrawing financial support in an effort to exercise control over a church that's slipping out of its own control. But U.S. progressives forget that God will provide the resources a faithful church needs. Let's use GC2020 to work out the details of a separation and get this done with.

John 81 days ago

That allows...

...for a Progressive/Moderate US Church to do an awful lot.

I wonder if the individual church exit plan will be early on the docket for GC2020. There are a lot of churches that are going to feel isolated in their conference and jurisdiction after this.

JR 80 days ago

Amen

Yes. Africa culture should control its own destiny, but not the culture and certainly not the destiny of the majority of the United Methodist Church,

Nancy Woods 80 days ago

Interesting theory

I agree that financial abandonment of the global church outside the US may be the eventual outcome. Yet I have never heard anyone (granted that my church circles are kind of small) suggest that we cut off funding in order to force Africa and Asia to accommodate the preferences of the majority of the American church. Rather, what I see is passage of legislation designed to force the majority of the UMC churches and congregants in the US out of the UMC. I doubt that even the African delegations think that they can force us out yet continue to count on us to financially support the UMC's mission through apportionments. Rather, we will likely end up in a new denominational structure that will end up receiving the financial and spiritual support of those who feel that we have been banished.

Stephan Hill 79 days ago

To be fair...

There have been some (not very loud) calls to cut off funding to Africa and other conservative areas.

I don't think they are heeded as being the voice of the majority of non-Traditionalists here in America.

I do see a couple of things coming:
If there's a true schism, and the African churches keep themselves primarily hitched to the WCA wagon, they are going to see an immense drop in funding - simply because the new Prog UMC is going to have to get it's house in order.

If there's a CCP-type of split, the funding probably won't be hugely impacted.

Here's the fun part though - I suspect that either way, the near future is going to see a change in what exactly can be addressed at GC - I highly doubt that the American UMC is going to allow itself to be subject to control from outside the US (we're almost at that point now, and in a decade or so the numbers are going to shift enough to have us be a minority in the UMC). I expect that there will be a restructuring similar to having the US be it's own Central Conference, instead of the jurisdictional thing we've got now. Potentially more than one, though also potentially could be 'North America' CC. That would allow the US to modify the BoD to be more applicable to our cultural basis (and would have allowed us to avoid all the mess we are in right now). The question there is, will enough of the other votes join in to let that happen? If not it will make this current mess look quaint. It would be really nice to see our leadership recognize this and work proactively (instead of reactively) and line up the pieces.

JR 79 days ago

Perhaps....

Could it be that the Overseas contingent is secure enough in their faith that a cut in funding is not a huge concern? Strong and steadfast faith seems like such a quaint concept to Progressives nowadays.

Dave 78 days ago

Change

I suspect the UMC is entering a period where each General Conference will produce a flip-flop on positions. This has already been seen in the abortion rights issue. As the demographics of the church changes, it is likely the Africans will eventually be in control of the denomination. Those who are unhappy with this prospect should enact some from of separation while they still have the votes.

David 81 days ago

Two things we now know for sure

There is no such thing as a centrist when it comes to sexuality.
Progressives never had any intention of sharing the church with traditionalists.

I am confused. It is not OK for LGBTQIA persons are underrepresented but it is a victory when traditionalists are? Does this mean traditionalists can now disrupt the business of the church with protests demanding that the church accommodate their particular viewpoint? Will we be allowed to pick and choose which decisions we abide by?

betsy 82 days ago

Misleading map

Your map shows south Carolina as rejecting the traditional plan. While it is true the elders narrowly elected the progressive delegates and a couple of lay delegates on the first couple of votes the traditional lay delegates caught on to what was happening and elected WCA delegates for the rest. Had our many local pastors been allowed to vote the result would have been very different. Thankfully the proposals to gc were ruled our of order but they would have gone down in flames if we had voted. SC remains traditional, only the elders lean progressive.

Scott 82 days ago

Or ...

... the headline could read "76 Percent of U.S Annual Conferences Reject New Language of Book of Discipline; Out of Sync with Global Church." There's no longer a "Traditional Plan." A good portion of that plan is now Disciplinary language to be implemented on January 1, 2020. Oppose it if you must, but at least be honest with what you're opposed to.

John 82 days ago

Goal

So is your goal to find and do God's will or is it to defeat the WCA?

Questing 82 days ago

Are those incompatible?

They might be, but they might be the same thing.

JR 80 days ago

Blinders

Perhaps the same thing but this author seems to be so fixated on the WCA that I seriously doubt that they can hear God's voice.

Questing 79 days ago

The Right-Wing Movement is having its Gotterdammerung*

*Twilight of the Gods" for those welche nich sprechten Deutsch. The flameout on the world stage is occurring in a microcosm in the UMC, the only Mainline Church which indulges in official hatred as a matter of policy. Renfroe, Lambrecht, and their partners in cynical manipulation to aggraqndize themselves are reaping the whirlwind, and their movement is spent. No one under 40 listens to these charlatans. Their perfidy will end as they have reaped what they have sown.

George Nixon Shuler 82 days ago

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