Africa's Great Betrayal: a Harvest of Thorns

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Unbelievable

Thought that was the kindest description of this post by Dr. Nayarota I could offer. Please, readers, go to the WCA website and read the response to this post sent out on June 25 to get a better understanding of reality as to what happened at the Special General Conference and what has happened since. I think the WCA got it right and Dr. N
Is about 180 degrees off from reality.

Scott S 116 days ago

You might be right.

It might be completely fabricated.

Or maybe not.

But I do know when and where we'll get more information.

GC2020. If the vote shift is significantly more than can be attributed to the known changes on the American side of the house, it will be interesting to hear what is said. And if it's not a significant difference (allowing for changes in who is elected to come from specifically Africa, of course), then it would lend credence to the WCA view.

I'm generally of the opinion that proof needs to be exceptional in cases like this. I'm fully aware of my limited information, and skeptical of the hearsay being true. Denials could likewise be true, or could be covering up the truth. So I'm in a 'watch and listen' mode on this.

And I think that GC2020 will give some strong indication on which side reflects the truth on this matter.

JR 115 days ago

Deceptive Manipulation

These truths will stand the test of time, after they are attacked by American Conservatives and their pawns.

Rodney 117 days ago

Do we even agree on this?

http://psalms.seedbed.com/psalm-100/#1466804648612-c19979b7-8650abce-ce65

betsy 119 days ago

Absolutely.

Even the gay sheep, though your side would exclude them.

JR 118 days ago

This confirms

That there is absolutely nothing left to salvage. This whole mess just needs to come to an end.

betsy 120 days ago

Wow

This article make it sound like the African delegation had no mind of its own and where willing to be used as puppets. Was there no prior preparation done in advance by their Bishops? Was no discussion done in advance with the church membership in the African conference? Am I wrong to assume that all the delegates can read and have some education?

Claire 122 days ago

Harvest of Thorns

The African delegation were deceived and betrayed. They did not have access to all the information and, according to this article, were encouraged to ignore their Bishops (who did try to prepare them). This was the sense I got when I was at GC2019. I also observed what the author did and questioned what else I did not know since I'm not from Africa.

Shirl 118 days ago

Opinion Piece

It really would be helpful if UM Insight were clearer in how it utilizes opinion pieces. The author offers no corroboration of his story. These charges are too serious to be left without backing evidence and portrayed as an objective account of what happened at GC 2019

Frank Ashton 122 days ago

Frank

Frank, I am interested in what evidence you need so as to believe in the truthfulness of Lloyd’s claim. I’ll be more than willing to provide such details as someone who observed the same things Lloyd did.

Albert 122 days ago

Albert

"Why would one vote against vote-buying investigations unless you are guilty?" This is an insinuation posing as a question. One might vote against it because it is received as a slander from one's self-declared opponents. My main contention here is that there are multiple attempts by the author to read motivations and then act as if he has drawn objective conclusions. Thank you for the question.

Frank Ashton 121 days ago

Zimbabwe - what a travesty. Anyone using that country as an example of anything good, should go there and have friends that live there. Sad. Grace and Peace

Zimbabwe

Chuck 122 days ago

Zimbabwe

I was a Global Justice Volunteer - one of the many United Methodist missionary opportunities that are likely to for away with the church- on a team in South Africa with two men from Zim. They were both of high character and irrepressible sprit despite their nation's maladies. To impugn Zimbabweans is not a Christ- centered or reality-centered act.

Jerad Morey 121 days ago

Betrayal

When you sided with the WCA, you betrayed the One Church Plan that would have given you exactly what you mentioned. I find it impossible to believe that no educated clergy understood what was happening there. Honestly, I don't buy it. I wish I did. But these are after the fact claims for which you don't provide concrete support. Honest regret or political manuevering?

Tamara Love 122 days ago

John Oliver Piece

John Oliver did a piece about American Conservatives influencing Anti LGBTQ in African Politics
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2W41pvvZs0

Harry Stymiest 123 days ago

Hatred, Bigotry, and Greed

Hatred, bigotry, and greed will be the downfall of the church. Once you begin to be swayed by the power of persecuting others, you are easily manipulated - that includes all of the "conservatives" as well as the Africans. American conservatives won't be concerned about a gay genocide in Africa - they'll celebrate it while giving wide-eyed innocent looks to the rest of the world. The shame belongs to everyone who wanted to persecute gays. You reap what you sow - and in this case, as you write, it is a harvest of thorns.

Sue Moore 123 days ago

Thank you

Thank you, Lloyd, for your courageous truth-telling. It means a tremendous amount when a leader such as yourself speaks out like this. Thank you.

Steven Martin 123 days ago

Well Done

As a clergy bystander with no access to the "behind the scenes," it was clear to me that the African laity and clergy were used as pawns. In colonialism type fashion, they were not empowered to do theologically Wesleyan ministry in their context on their own terms, but used and manipulated for greedy conservative Americans. Fear is not of Christ and if it is the well from which someone is drawing, they are gravely misled.

Lorena Beach 123 days ago

Africa

Is this why 45% of the church was not invited to the recent Adam Hamilton huddle at his church, an omission pointed out as the first question at the closing Q&A?

Bob 123 days ago

Betrayal

This poor guy has been spoon fed nonsense by his progressive friends. To think that a few WCA people flipped 300 African votes is simply ridiculous. Might be time for him to finish up his work in North America and return to Zimbabwe to reacquaint himself with those in his own geographical and cultural context.

Kevin 123 days ago

Betrayal

Yes, Kevin. That is exactly what happened, and he goes into great detail with endnote references to describe the campaign waged by the WCA etc.

Bec 123 days ago

Response to Kevin

Kevin, Lloyd hasn’t been fed any nonsense by anyone. What evidence do you need in order to believe in the truthfulness of the claims raised in the article. As an eye witness to the claims raised by Lloyd, I am open to providing more information if that would help.

Albert 122 days ago

Reply

My African pastor friend told me this type of info at General Conference while it was happening.

Rev. Julia E F Poulsen 122 days ago

Harvest of Thorns

Yes. This was also what I got while at GC 2019. I don't need evidence because I saw it myself.

Shirl 118 days ago

Corroboration

The behavior you describe, if true and substantiated, is truly, morally reprehensible behavior. I realize that the current circumstances in the UMC are charged with a great deal of emotional and spiritual weight, as well as considerable distress, but if these allegations are true then the people involved, many with credentials in the UMC, need to be held accountable. What can the author offer in the way of corroboration for these allegations?

L. M. Jarrell 123 days ago

Amen

Thanks to Reverend Lloyd Nyarota for shedding this unfiltered light on these dynamics, and for all you have done for our connection. Jesu, tawa pano.

Jane Malone 124 days ago

Africans’ vote

Here’s what Lloyd said “Those people voted wrong. I was supposed to me their leader!”

Richard F Hicks 124 days ago

Pardon me, sir, your bias is showing.

He did not say that. Your interpretation says more about you.

Mark L Dicken 123 days ago

Reply

Yes. My comment says I’m insightful and in afraid to share. Thank you for pointing out my brain ms and courage

Richard F Hicks 122 days ago

Homosexuality and the church

If the discipline is going to specify homosexuality requiring suspension/a trial and expulsion, why not add the other sins of clergy: adultery, theft (especially of church funds, child molestation, drug/alcohol abuse,. The list can be added to if need be.

Albert B. Clayton 121 days ago

Matters of the Discipline

Actually the Discipline already includes the very things you are speaking of Albert. I know pastors who were dismissed for theft, adultery and drug abuse. Many pastors, and laity, act as if the only pastors that ever get dismissed are over the issue of human sexuality and that simply is not true. I have seen pastors dismissed for almost every issue you mention Albert.

Robert Lancaster 117 days ago

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