UMC Schismatics Are Now in Plain View…But Why?



Comments (8)

Comment Feed

Make no mistake....

Make no mistake, a split is coming. Here's how it works:
1. Bishops' recommendation passes- conservatives leave.
2. Bishops' recommendation fails and LGBT disobedience continues- conservatives leave.
3. Bishops' recommendation fails and disobedient clergy and bishops leave- conservatives stay.
The witness only remains if disobedient progressives leave.
The End.

Jeff more than 3 years ago

You ask "But Why?"

I have been a member of the Methodist Church for over 50 years. The issues of biblical sexuality were plainly understood and agreed upon for until the cultural changed as far as marriage and sexuality. There are many churches who have left biblical truths, and I do not see why the progressives do not leave and go to one of those churches that do not want to uphold scriptures. . Also, the Methodist book of discipline clearly states what biblical Christians believe. And our bishops are not even holding up the oaths that they professed to uphold!! Thank God for the WCA that are defending the values that have been clearly understood as biblical for over 2,000 years.

Linda more than 3 years ago

Not Biblical

Christianity claims to base its doctrine upon traditional Judaism, upon the Old Testament.

While the OT proscribes male/male intimacy, lesbianism is not proscribed. The rabbis (all, not just the liberal ones) teach that this is because homosexuality is not, in itself, a sin.

The problem with male/male intimacy is that, if a man is intimate with another man, he cannot then come home to procreate with his wife. In Judaism, this is a problem.

On the other hand, female/female intimacy is not forbidden because a woman can be intimate with another female and yet still procreate with her husband. So, no problem.

Thus, the rabbonim learn out that homosexuality, as we know it today, is not a problem. The only true problem is heterosexual males who also choose intimacy with other males.

Now, add to the above the fact that Jesus himself was never recorded as speaking one word about the topic of homosexuality.

So, you see, your understanding of what is 'traditional' belief regarding this topic is incorrect.

Source: I studied for the Orthodox rabbinate. Have spent most of my adult life studying Orthodox Jewish law.

Ben more than 3 years ago

Bible is Clear


Whereas I am not a student of Orthodox Judaism or any other type of Biblical scholar, I am proficient with Google. A simple 1 minute search on Google reveals Leviticus 18 and 20 which state a man shall not lie with another man and to do so is an abomination before God (I.e., the 11th Commandment). There is also that whole Sodom and Gomorrah thing in Genesis.

Whereas Jesus did not speak one word about homosexuality, his apostles (who were filled with the Spirit) were again very clear that men were not to lie with other men (see 1 Corinthians and Romans). Thus, Linda is correct when she says we should be abiding by Biblical values that have been used for 2000 years.

Our BoD clearly aligns with these biblical values. It is the progressive heathens who choose to ignore these values that we traditionalists seek to dissociate ourselves. These same progressives want to jam a social justice agenda down our throats which is secular humanism, not based in Christianity.

The homosexuality issue is only the tip of the spear. Abortion, illegal immigration, Islam, global warming are just some of the issues where I disagree with how the UMC has been heading. The time is right and the homosexuality issue affords a good line in the sand to call for a total split of the UMC. As any continued centrist or progressive agenda will only pull us further from the biblical values we have to follow, we can’t agree to any “compromise” that treats homosexuality as anything but the sin it is. Those who can’t see this aren’t credible to lead us.

Steve more than 3 years ago

It is NOT hate, and not simply church rules, Ben

This upheaval and looming split is NOT about different interpretations of Biblical law! Most of us sinners break religious laws all the time in one way or another, so the laws of the church are not your real enemy. We “traditionalists”, in my view, are guided more by what our parents taught us, and our teachers and coaches and drill instructors and peers – and, more importantly, our natural interests: most of us boys, for example, found girls very interesting long before we knew much more about the Bible than the Flood, Christmas, Easter and Passover. They told me my first crush was on a girl named “Susie” at about age 4. She was a beauty!

It boils down to taste and our natural desire to co-mingle with those much like us. I do not eat raw fish. I do not listen to RAP music. I do not hate anyone who likes those things, but I avoid those places where those things are present. No hate. Personal priorities. By the same token, we MC “traditionalists” view our church as refuge from the wicked world around us. It is natural to expect certain things of one’s refuge.

But, no matter how the bishops decide, my refuge is gone. And so, I am gone. Clergy and bishops and lay persons in many locations have ignored their vows and rules to the point that it will never be the same. Toothpaste cannot be put back into the tube and the trend is clear that the UMC will either split under controlled, fair and amicable terms, or continue to ignore traditions while people like me just fade away.

Yet, not because of hate. I sincerely try to avoid hate. I sincerely want everybody to live a happy life, enjoy love as they define it, care for those who depend on us, serve the public good and find personal salvation. That is not hate. I simply require that I find those things in the environment in which I am comfy.

Reese more than 3 years ago

Amen, Brother Reese.

Amen, Brother Reese. Well said.

Dianne Mueller more than 3 years ago

Just Some Thoughts

With this particular issue in mind, I think the WCA and Good News are just trying to make a point that perhaps a "traditionalist" view of marriage and human sexuality is actually biblical and has stood the test of time—and perhaps the UMC has not done its job in holding it's people accountable to what they have "signed up for". If the Book of Discipline says one thing, but people within the UMC (primarily speaking of the clergy) are violating it, then that is an issue. It seems the UMC is simply too ambiguous—especially with these matters.

Cody Neal more than 3 years ago

Honoring the scriptures or to not honor the scriptures

It seems that those that seek to honor the scriptures are being denied a hearing. They can point out their issue and those that havent regard for what the scriptures speak simply dismiss what is the issue. Are we to respect and honor the scriptures ? Or do we chose to disregard and reword what some chose to deny? It is not anything about hate or animosity toward what ever a" liberal " means to some. It's not about what "conservative" means to some. I think those that call themselves by these terms may be entering into a manipulative political stance that ignores to core and root issue. There are many that read the scriptures and think they mean what they say. They are intelligent bright people that understand the scriptures and can not read them like they are weeding a garden, throwing out discarding what they chose. The real rift in the churches is based in how we honor and respond to the scriptures. We all sin it is true. We all need the Grace of Our Lord Jesus Christ. We all are dependent on that. None can get to our destination without Him. But we must honor the scriptures as they are else we already have no church between us because we disregard what the scriptures actually say at will, person by person, congregation to congregation. It's not about sides. It's about the mutilation of the meaning and intent of the scriptures. Start here or there and carry on and bone of the scriptures are honored, or. Just some are honored but who decides what then to reword or ignore?

Marty more than 3 years ago