John Wesley Should Have Left the Anglicans



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You are attempting to compare apples and oranges. Wesley was approaching worship differently, he wasn't trying to convince the church that it was acceptable to promote sin. This is not at all about enforcing human rules but is about upholding God's righteous laws. It seems to me that liberals have a very one dimensional god. Yes God is about love and grace but He is also about righteousness and repentance.

Virginia more than 2 years ago

You are right and yet wrong

You are right in that Wesley should have left the Anglican Church. However, you are wrong when you say progressives should not leave the UMC. Unlike in Wesley’s situation, it is the majority of members who are asking progressives to lead and not just church leaders.

Too much time, energy and resources have been expended trying to find a solution acceptable to both sides. Each time the vote confirms the status quo, homosexuality is incompaible with Christian teaching. The GC2019 vote took the necessary step to ramp up enforcement of the BOD. The longer progressives drag their feet about leaving the tougher it will be to leave with minimal consequences, as well it should be.

Please leave, the sooner the better for all of us.

Steve more than 2 years ago

Church Split

Regardless of which side of the issue you are on and regardless of the Bibical and theological references supporting either side the 2019 GC vote was bad business. I was in banking for 44 years and saw first hand how banking changed to reach new and different thinking client bases. To exclude LGBTQ folks when those in USA under age 40 are more in inclusive thinking is simply bad business and will hasten the demise of the influence of the Church in USA. I believe influence and personal salvation is what we are selling. We are not being smart about it.

Morton Hoagland more than 2 years ago

You are looking at it all wrong

What you and others don’t seem to realize is the differences between the two sides has nothing to do with exclusion, influencing, branding, or the appeal or turnoff to new members. The issue is whether or not the UMC is going to preach the word of God as provided in the Bible, or teach secular social justice babble with no Biblical basis. The issue is about core values regardless of the fallout.

Steve more than 2 years ago

The Word of God

Which language are we talking here? Most of the New Testament was in Greek; Old Testament was in Aramaic, Hebrew, etc.

You seem to imply that the English translation is perfect.

You might want to refer back to the Book of Discipline on this: (2016 version, P105 pg 84)

We properly read Scripture within the believing community, informed by the tradition of that community.

We interpret individual texts in light of their place in the Bible
as a whole.

We are aided by scholarly inquiry and personal insight,
under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. As we work with each text,
we take into account what we have been able to learn about the
original context and intention of that text. In this understanding
we draw upon the careful historical, literary, and textual studies
of recent years, which have enriched our understanding of the

Through this faithful reading of Scripture, we may come to
know the truth of the biblical message in its bearing on our own
lives and the life of the world. Thus, the Bible serves both as a
source of our faith and as the basic criterion by which the truth
and fidelity of any interpretation of faith is measured.

While we acknowledge the primacy of Scripture in theological
reflection, our attempts to grasp its meaning always involve tradi-
tion, experience, and reason. Like Scripture, these may become
creative vehicles of the Holy Spirit as they function within the
Church. They quicken our faith, open our eyes to the wonder of
God’s love, and clarify our understanding.

There's no expectation of Literal Reading there, quite the opposite. You might want to pray about that for a while.

JR more than 2 years ago